Where are the women speakers? My evidence is anecdotal, but it’s overwhelming: women are underrepresented on the dais. Women are half the population, but only a tiny percentage of the keynote speakers. I was at a conference recently where the attendees had a roughly 50-50 gender split, eyeballing the room. And yet, after a day of speakers – on the order of 8 or so – the audience started to wonder where the women keynoters were. There were none. It even became a tweet thing. And this wasn’t a Navy-Seals-Who-Have-Lead-Assaults-On-Osama-Bin-Laden-Hideouts-Only-Speakers-Allowed event. It was about marketing.
Then, recently Greg Martin, a mathematics professor, after attending a mathematics conference with 19 male speakers and one woman, did what mathematicians do: he checked the odds. And guess what? It’s statistically impossible for that lineup to be random.
So now we have hard statistical evidence. The reason that there won’t be a representative array of men and women speakers at the next conference you attend is simple: bias.
And it needs to stop. We need – obviously, of course – to achieve diversity of the dais just as much as we need diversity in the boardroom, the executive ranks, and the upper levels of organizational management in general.
Presumably all the same reasons for bias and lack of women in these areas also affect the keynote-speaking world, since the source of many of those speakers is the same.
And there’s one additional reason. To understand it, you need to understand the economics of the professional speaking world.
For most people, the fees commanded by the top keynote speakers are a source of amazement, or wonder, or outrage. How could someone earn $40K in an hour? Or more? Of course, most speakers make much less, but former President Clinton and a few other in-demand speakers make more, often much more.
OK, so the fees can be high. Of course, those who are amazed or outraged at the hourly rate don’t think about the years of preparation, or the amount of effort required to get that hour on the stage, or that fee, but that’s not my concern here.
Let’s look at the typical conference. We’re talking about 500 people descending on a nice venue for a couple of days. The overall budget, excluding the travel required to get everyone there, is roughly 1.5 to 2 million. Most of that is for the venue, food and drink.
I was negotiating once on behalf of a client over the speaking fee, when the organizer laughed as he finally agreed to the haggled price, $30K, saying, “Nick, what you don’t realize is that I’m going to spend $40K on the mid-morning coffee and bagel break. Just so you know.”
He was trying to rub it in, and make himself feel better, but I got the message. If a conference organizer can get a speaker for $10K less, then he might be able to offer steak instead of chicken at lunch. And that might make for happier customers (unless they’re vegan), which might mean more repeat business.
But the speaker is still a relatively small percentage of the total budget. To put those keynote fees into perspective for you.
Here’s another way to look at it. Is Malcolm Gladwell’s reported $100K keynote fee worth it? If the conference costs, say, $1200 to attend, and the star power of Mr. Gladwell’s name induces an additional 100 fence-sitters to show up, then the conference organizers actually make $20K by hiring Mr. Gladwell to speak.
Those are theoretical numbers, but you get the idea. Star power is important for conference organizers because it brings paying customers.
So what we need to redress the gender imbalance on the dais (and incidentally the income imbalance) is to create more women speaking stars.
Partly, it’s a Catch-22. Few women getting hired to speak means fewer can become stars, which means fewer will get hired to speak. But that’s not the whole story. Former Secretary of State Clinton commands high fees and more speaking invitations than she can fulfill because she’s a star first.
We need both. We need more conference organizers to begin to hire more women speakers. And we need more women stars. And that gets back to the need for diversity in general. What are we waiting for?
Many high grossing speakers are highly rated ex business leaders. It therefore follows that with only 14.6% of Executive Directors of the Fortune 500 and only 9% of the FTSE 100 Executive Directors being female, it will be a long time before 50% of our key note speakers are women.
I have over 30 years business experience in manufacturing and finance and am a NED on the British Chambers of Commerce board. My current business focuses on gender equality. The only conferences I am ever asked to speak at are Women’s Business conferences. I have not once been approached to present at a mixed event, other than when I was President of our local Chamber and I presented at my own annual dinners! I am a confident speaker, having earned a drama teaching qualification along the way. Even locally, where I have worked and lived for 35+ years, I have not been invited to sit on panels at mixed events, never mind speak. I strongly believe this is because men do not consider a business person to be credible unless they have worked at Exec level in a large business with turnover in the millions. They fail to see that many women, whose businesses tend to stay small because they are often jugging family and career, have often held NED posts across many sectors or have advised or provided consultancy services to huge organisations.
I have attended numerous conferences, dinners and award ceremonies over the past 10 years and can honestly say that the only time I have ever heard a female speaker is when the subject is HR based or relates to diversity.
Change is long overdue but I fear will be a long time coming.
Thanks, Wendy, for your comment. I fear you’re correct — change will be slow. Years ago when I was (briefly) in charge of administering a Federal desegregation consent decree at the University of Virginia (don’t ask) it became clear to me that it was easier for the entrenched white faculty at UVa to desegregate than it was to bring women into their ranks. It was an old boys’ club. And that club still continues.
So glad you brought this up, Nick.
I’ve spoke at many conferences where I was the first woman to take the stage after an initial large group of male speakers.
Fortunately, the conferences I’ve spoken at so far have had better-than-average gender balance, but the balance hasn’t reflected the gender split in our population, or the gender split in the audience.
One of my goals in striving to become a better speaker is to speak from my experience but also as a representative of my gender — to offer conference organizers an alternative and help them get more women up front.
Thank you for your work: it’s helping me achieve this goal!
Hi, Pamela — thanks for your comment and your great work. It’s tough to be both yourself and a representative of a group — the pressure can be huge. It’s trailblazers like you that will eventually right the gender imbalance on the dais. Hang in there! I think the big change will come when the audiences start to demand more women….
Hi Nick, thanks for highlighting this important issue. As with many things these days, the customers are becoming increasingly powerful. I attended a conference recently where there were 4/5 male speakers and 5 white men on the panel. The audience was clearly displeased and voiced their concerns openly at the mic and then equally loudly over Twitter. At their next conference, the organizers had a 2/5 women speakers and more women on the panel. We female speakers will have a much better chance if the audiences demand a more balanced lineup.
Thanks, Liane — and glad to hear that when an audience demands change, it works!
Thank you for this article. The only point on which I would correct you is that women actually account for more than 50% of the population – 51% or 52%!
Thanks, Ruth.
There is a lot more to this than recruiter bias. As you know all too well, the route to speaking involves developing a platform, including writing books, publishing magazine articles and otherwise promoting yourself to create an audience. Becoming a “star” speaker is not just deciding to do it, but actually involves a lot of work, and a lot of commitment.
There are dozens of roadblocks to women and minorities in business. Especially in larger corporations. But being a speaker is an entrepreneurial endeavor. The obstacles are the same for everyone, and no higher for women than men.
In fact, as you observed, the hiring bias actually favors women. As you pointed out, event organizers would love to schedule more women. They know it will please their audiences.
But where are these women? How many have made the commitment and put in the time, money and effort to build their platform? To be known for something, and be desired to tell their story? It is important to recognize that anyone can be in the speaker business if they really want to – so why is it that so many men make the leap to do it, and so few women do?
I am a very active member of the National Association of Corporate Directors. The women who belong to NACD average 4 boards each. The men average 1. Every single recruitment campaign for a new director (about which I’ve seen, and they were many) the last 3 years has clearly stated the company would prefer a woman.
They scout for women, and leave searches open months longer in an effort to find a woman. They change the qualifications to make sure they are gender friendly (such as clearly stating CEO history is not required, and they will accept a background including management, non-profit Board work, or part-time academic experience. Even stating they will accept people “re-entering the workforce” which is code for “find me a woman who quit working, but wants to re-engage.”)
These companies, and recruiters, don’t say the pool of “qualified” women is too small. They say that they simply struggle to find any women who are willing to pursue a career in corporate governance. The companies will pay for ongoing training via organizations like NACD, but they simply struggle to find candidates.
Before we blame the lack of women speakers, or directors, on bias, we should make sure there are women out there who want the work and are prepared to do what it takes to be successful at it. I’ve clearly seen men turned down for speaking gigs and directorships because the hiring entity wanted a woman, and they’ve worked hard to find them.
My son is in a PhD bioengineering program. For 3 years he has been a recruiter for the undergraduate engineering program. He very clearly has goals for promoting more women into the engineering school. The school has created a large array of scholarships and grants to make it possible for women to study engineering at a greatly reduced cost – far more programs than are available to men. And they created faculty directed support groups for women who might desire extra help with specific subjects, free tutoring programs as well as peer-level study groups. Yet, every single semester it is an ongoing struggle to recruit women, and it is an ongoing struggle to keep them in the programs through graduation.
Yet, the school continues to be accused of bias. This state school will reject 30% of incoming male applicants. It will reject no women applications. Regardless of pre-college classes or grades, this school will provide additional classes and tutors to help the women be successful engineers if they simply apply. And the school will begin each semester with at least 5 unfilled positions, because it would rather recruit women through the last minute and leave the class unfilled than fill the spots with men which might promote the ongoing perception of acceptance bias.
Blaming bias for an unbalanced male to female ratio is easy. But it is less clear that is what is happening. More women have to be in the applicant pool. And for events, more women need to go out and build their speaking platform for the dais to change.
Thanks, Adam, for your comment. I suspect that many of the initiatives you’re referring to are relatively recent. It takes time (as you point out) to develop a speaking career. Just as it took a generation to begin to make progress on segregation, it will take a good deal of time to make progress on gender discrimination.
I agree with Adam.
I don’t think this is a “STEM” problem, where women aren’t attracted to this career. Women are equally comfortable being on stage and speaking in public as men. We have plenty of actresses and television anchors, and female celebrities and storytellers.
And while I think there is some external bias, I think it is based on the audience’s preferences. The last conference I attended (Inbound — content, I believe you were there too), the headline speakers were Amy Schumer and Brene Brown. Women outnumber men in my industry – (content creation)–and so there was a bias to find women presenters. Of the four panels I attended, three were led by women.
The pool of professional public speakers seems to be made up of two groups…Entrepreneurs like Suze Orman or Brene Brown who choose to pursue this entrepreneurial career choice as its own goal, and executives/powerful women/celebrities like Hillary Clinton or Amy Schumer who are monetizing their existing influence.
The first group, (the Suze Orman’s of the world) are engaged in a highly demanding, risky, competitive, and exhausting profession, requiring time to travel and build their brand. It may not be compatible with raising a family. So most are in their 20’s or early 30’s, or post-family, or no family. That cuts the numbers way down. This entrepreneurial, high risk-taking group might always be over-represented by men, the way professional poker players will always be mostly men.
The second group of speakers, the Hillary Clinton’s of the world, are made up of women who have built a brand through success in other fields. The number of women who become speakers through this route will mirror the number of women who rise to the top of their professions. I think in twenty years, based on current trends, you will see women speakers outnumber men in medicine, education and many other professional fields.
Thanks, Andrew. Interesting that the comments by women are so different from the two men.
Thanks for recognizing a reality that I and other female presenters have been facing on goingly.
I think that the dismal low percentages of female representation in CEO and Board positions of Fortune 500 companies, is probably indicative of the percentages of female speakers in the business/corporate arena. My personal take is that female speakers are butting up against the same biases that have kept women out of positions of power and authority for as long as I’ve been around.
I attended The University of Virginia as part of the first class of women admitted to the all male ( and proud of it) school. My career since then has paralleled that experience as a woman in a man’s world of business suits and ties.
My foray into public speaking hasn’t been much different than my leadership and business experiences. The same unspoken biases are there…
Solutions are persistence, being really really good, maintaining a large outreach and of course using a top notch coach like Nick Morgan.
I also want to add that breaking those barriers will happen when the younger women step up to the plate. Unfortunately they still need to face the fact that gender inequality is real and be prepared to fight and push. I now spend a good amount of time priming young women to step up and go for the top if that is what they want.
Man, change is slow sometimes and this gender inequality in business and leadership is at the top of the list of SLOW.
Thanks, Betty, for your words of wisdom from the front! I know how hard you work in all areas of the business, and I know that your success is both hard-won and deserved. As you say, progress is slow.
Nick-
Thank you so much for helping to continue this dialogue. Like many audiences, we get frustrated also about the lack of women being booked for keynotes.
We always try to include a few great women speakers in our speaker candidate proposals, but many times they are passed over by clients. We cannot seem to find specific reasons why this happens, but hopefully the tide will change sooner than later.
There are many amazing women speakers who are ready to inspire and inform audiences that are simply overlooked. Looking forward to hearing more comments from your readers and finding possible solutions to this cultural issue – and maybe as an industry we can start making progress towards greater equality on the dais!
SPEAKING.com Speakers Bureau
Thanks for your comment!
https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/10/13/why-i-say-no-to-all-male-panels/. This was written by my VPP, thanks for writing about gender!
Thanks, Anne Marie!
Great article Nick! Good observations. I’m always surprised when I go to a conference dominated by female attendees and two of the three key speakers are men. Before I began writing books and presenting, my first career was as a lawyer in Texas…definitely a male-dominated environment. Like many women professionals, my colleagues’ acceptance and respect came after achieving results.
While Adam and Andrew raise interesting points about child rearing and women not choosing to take advantage of programs, there are several women speakers who have advanced degrees, write great books and have experiences relevant those of our male counterparts. I don’t think the “hard work” aspect is missing. From what I’ve observed, asking for comparable fees, negotiating powerfully and marketing more effectively are more likely issues. In addition, avoiding the appearance of being greedy and/or bragging seems ingrained in several women speakers I know.
Thanks again, Nick, for raising the topic.
Linda
P.S. Other women (and men) who are interested in the business of speaking should check out the National Speakers Association: http://www.NSASpeaker.org. In addition to programming, NSA members give practical advice as well as support in an profession that can be lonely. The mentors and community provided have been extremely helpful.
Thanks, Linda — I appreciate the comments and the reference to the NSA.
Hi Nick,
I’m so glad you brought this topic up and I’ve been mulling it over…
Last night I attended a Toastmasters District Conference where Kelly Sargeant, last year’s 2nd runner up in the Toastmasters Annual World Championship of Public Speaking, spoke. If I’m interpreting the data she presented right – since 1972 only 4 women made it as far as she did.
The Toastmasters site says that nearly 53% of the members were women in 2013 (https://www.toastmasters.org/About/Demographics). How many choose to compete in the contests? I don’t know but my guess, and my observation of my club, area and region, is it is far more than a fraction of a percent.
There have been scientific studies that point to bias favoring men in the workplace for evaluations, promotions and compensation. So it begs the question do both men AND women unconsciously favor male speakers? Or when evaluating do we tend to rate male speakers higher? I couldn’t find any studies on the web but I would be so curious to know.
Kelly in her presentation just talked about the data. She did not speculate whether it was a judging bias or whether it was that fewer women enter the contests. Either way, this a powerful concept here to think about.
Ladies, the world is missing out on our ideas. And the world needs to hear our voices.
Thanks Nick for the opportunity to chime in!
Amanda
Thanks, Amanda, for the good data and the commentary. Much food for thought here. The numbers just don’t add up — there should be more women speakers just on the face of it. There’s something more than just a little bias going on. A lot of bias? A combination of pipeline, bias, and what?
I’m not sure either but it is a fascinating topic. My bet it is a combination of factors, like you said, bias, pipeline and something else (cultural, etc.). I wonder if Toastmasters or the NSA or others like them have a foundation and are planning to do a study on this?
Regardless, I plan to continue my journey in public speaking. I’m just starting to turn the corner in being calm enough to have the presence of mind to read the audience. The good news is it only took a lot of practice to get to this point and practice is something I can do!
We need studies! And we need women to keep on breaking through the bias, getting on the stage, and becoming the keynote speakers.
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