Liane Davey is an old friend and client, one who has proved incredibly skilled at understanding and helping improve the psychology of team dynamics in the workplace.  Her company, which she founded with her husband, is 3COze.  And so I was thrilled to learn of her new book, The Good Fight.  It seemed like a good time to catch up with her and see what she’s thinking about right now.

Nick:  Many people, especially in a business setting, are conflict-avoiding.  How should those sort of people approach this book?

Liane:  First, they should understand that it’s normal and natural to dislike conflict. Not only are we biologically wired to get along with those in our group, we’re also raised to think that conflict isn’t nice or polite. So that’s the first thing; I don’t want people to be too hard on themselves. I do want people to realize that conflict is a part of life in an organization. For example, you have to make difficult trade-offs, allocate promotions, and give feedback that people don’t necessarily want to hear. Avoiding those conflicts costs your organization in stalled productivity, costs your team in eroded trust, and costs you in pent up stress. I guess what I really want people to see is that some things are worth fighting for.

Nick:  I’ve often noted that we seem to be living in an angry era, thanks in part to spending so much time in our digital worlds.  Will this book help our plight or make it worse, focusing on fighting as it does?

Liane:  It is an angry era. That’s where the second half of The Good Fight comes in. We already talked about why sometimes you have to fight, but now we need to focus on making that fight a good one. A good fight is one where you come to a resolution (instead of facing the same issues week after week), where trust among colleagues goes up, and where you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day and be proud of how you showed up. The Good Fight is full of actual scripts on how to ensure that any fight you have is a good one.

Nick:  How did you get so comfortable dealing with these tough issues?

Liane:  Ha! I have you fooled. I’m not comfortable dealing with these issues. But several years ago, I realized that I was just going to have to get used to being uncomfortable and broaching conflicts anyway. It was a really important moment for me. I had gotten into so much conflict debt (from avoiding the issues) at one job that I finally declared bankruptcy and quit. After finding what I thought would be the perfect team, I suddenly found myself back in a challenging situation with plenty of dysfunction. That’s when I realized that I couldn’t run from conflict and I had to start dealing with it.

Now I think about conflict the same way as I think about exercise. I used to get a really sore back standing to give speeches or facilitate. I started doing abdominal workouts for 10 minutes, three times a week. To this day, I still find those crunches and planks so uncomfortable, but now I can be on my feet all day without getting a sore back. I just think about conflict the same way. I try to have the three uncomfortable conversations in a week that will make the rest of my week so much better. So ,you see, I’m not comfortable with conflict, I’m just comfortable being uncomfortable!

Nick:  What’s the experience like of seeing Liane live?  Do you get into fights with the audience:-)?  

Liane:  Not usually with the audiences at my speeches. I did get into a bit of a fight with a podcast host recently. He was doing a podcast about leadership and he showed himself to be rigid and unwilling to consider a different perspective. (Ironically, we were talking about what respect means.) I decided I had to practice what I preach so I used several good fight techniques on him.

For the most part, my speaking audiences take ownership for their own conflict avoidance and then I’m very empathetic and keen to help them. I use lots of humor because I believe that a spoonful of sugar really does help the medicine go down.

Nick:  Tell us about you and your background.

Liane:  I started out as a researcher, doing a PhD in Organizational Psychology. Even back then (25 years ago) I was really interested in how team dynamics play out in the real world. I had one supervisor in Psychology and one in Engineering and I studied how team dynamics affect innovation. I still love to help teams be more innovative and solving the conflict avoidance issue is one big part of that.

I’ve been a consultant since 1998 and my husband and I founded our firm, 3COze Inc in 2015. That allows me to focus on two things. First, I help build high performing executive teams working with some very large organizations your readers would know well. Second, I write, and speak to help everyone learn the habits that will keep their teams healthy and make work the meaningful and positive contribution to their lives that it should be.

I wouldn’t trade my job for anything. It’s a pleasure and a privilege to help people get to the other side of these sensitive and vexing interpersonal issues.

Nick:  Liane, what you’re working on is so important.  Everyone should get this book and use it to improve their working relationships.  Thank you for chatting with me!

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